Posts by Rufus T. Firefly

55

Are we pro-shunning or against it?

by Simon in

just to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.

it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.

they need to stop it.

Rufus T. Firefly

You raise some good points, Simon.

First, one must discern the distinction between Christian dis-fellowshipping (1 Cor. 5:11) and shunning (2 John 9-11). To understand what Christian dis-fellowshipping is, one must understand what Christian fellowshipping is: A sharing of spiritual association. To discontinue spiritual association with a "brother" who is an unrepentant evildoer (defined at 1 Cor. 5:11) does not require refusing to greet such ones in normal social situations. Paul said to "keep this one marked, stop associating with him...yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother." The only persons Christians are warned about greeting are former Christians who have rejected "the teaching of the Christ." (2 John 9-11)

I feel that dis-fellowshipping and/or shunning should be a strictly personal decision, and should not be mandated by any organization.

Some JWs feel it is proper to shun inactive family members they encounter at family funerals.

11

Acts 8:14 - Apostles are governing body - was this ever taught before?

by berrygerry in

today's wt study (nov 15, 2014 page 4, par 4.. the governing body in jerusalem sent the apostles peter and john to these samaritan converts, and they laid their hands on them, and they began to receive holy spirit.

(acts 8:5, 6, 14-17) .

there are multiple references to acts 15 whereby "the apostles and older men" were the governing body.. i have never noticed this applied to "the apostles" only in acts 8:14 before.. is this another new item to reinforce the concept of the governing body?.

Rufus T. Firefly

http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/minimoog-898174-gilead-grad-talk-59th-class/

Listen to Fred Franz explain that the first century Christian congregation had a governing body of one--Christ Jesus--and that Christ Jesus remains the sole governing body of today's Christian congregation.

7

UK WTBTS headquarters in Silentlambs

by stan livedeath in

with all the change over on here--has this been covered already---please remove if it had and is a duplicate.. http://www.silentlambs.org/jworg-ibsascandal.htm.

Rufus T. Firefly

WOW! Thank you, stan livedeath, for sharing this.

7

I have a question about a quote from Ray Franz

by Truth and Justice in

jw
friends

hi to the group!.

i have a question about a quote that ray franz made, and i am quoting him, his quote is as follows: page 283 of "crisis of conscience" top of the page:.

fred was saying - in his comments, he stated that some were questioning the society's position (set forth in a recent watchtower) that jesus christ is the mediator only for the "anointed" ones and not for the other millions of jehovah's witnesses.

Rufus T. Firefly

My wife refuses to accept the fact that the WT teaches that Christ is mediator only for the 144,000...even when I showed it to her in the Insight book. My wife is a "zealous" regular pioneer who never talks about the Bible or "the truth" and who has no interest in conducting a Bible study with anyone. This is how one remains a JW.

73

Active JW's and JW Lurkers- Especially JW Defenders and Believers: A Few Questions For You

by OnTheWayOut in

while there are not too many currently defending the watchtower in this discussion forum, it happens from time to time.

and quite often, there may be new people and lurkers reading these discussions.

i just wanted you to ponder these questions.

Rufus T. Firefly

'committeechairman,' I appreciate your participation in this forum, and I hope you will continue to post comments. Please do not feel I am beating up on you by my following observations.

A certain sentence of yours exemplfies the problem most JW elders have. You wrote: "I know that you believe I'm f-ing up peoples lives by serving as an elder, but I continue to hold on to this because I can help people behind the scenes by having this authority."

I think I know what you meant by "having this authority," and I'm guessing you would like to be able to rephrase that comment, but I believe it is very revealing. It exemplifies the problem I had with JW elders throughout my 40+ years as an active JW. Most, if not all, of the elders I knew mistook responsibility for authority. Persons who view themselves as having a responsibility usually consider that they are also accountable. Persons who view themselves as having authority often do not, except to those having greater authority. I believe bullies are persons who fail to recognize their accountability for their actions toward "lesser ones."

The Watchtower Society holds all clergymen responsible--and accountable--for the errors of their respective religious organizations. This may explain some of the less than friendly responses to the participation in this forum of a current JW elder. I don't know you or your circumstances, but I wonder if you've considered the loss of authority as the reason you find it so hard to resign your eldership.

I restate my appreciation for your participation here, and I believe you are not the only current elder who participates in this forum.

102

Bill Cosby - too much smoke for no fire?

by Simon in

it seems like the list of people who are accusing him of rape and sexual assault is growing every day.

i'm skeptical of single accusations but the number of people and the similar stories seem overwhelming now.. it's not a conviction but to the court of public opinion ... guilty?.

.

Rufus T. Firefly

I am sick of hearing the "smoke" and "fire" analogies. Smoke is evidence of a fire. So far in the case of Bill Cosby, there hasn't been one bit of evidence that the accusers were not willing participants, much less that the events ever occurred. One accuser claimed Cosby gave her two pills and told her to take them. She did. She also said this happened on multiple occasions. The interviewer asked, "Can you understand why people will assume what occurred was consensual?" The accuser replied, "I can see why you would phrase it that way." The number of accusers is irrelevant if not one can produce evidence to back up an allegation. These accusations are nothing more than "bar talk," and anyone who gives them any creedence is naive, to say the least. There are people who will say or do anything for 15 minutes of attention. Furthermore, screw the "court of public opinion" in which George Zimmerman stands convicted of "murdering" Trayvon Martin even though he was found not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a televised trial. Cosby still gets paid for his NBC sitcom which got pulled. He is no loser!

3

what exactly are imitation or false christains?

by sowhatnow in

first of all pardon my spelling.

i was reading an older article on cedars website about the 'new light on the faithful slave' nonsense, and i was reminded of the phrase imitation christains.. in the article from in the july 15th study article titled l'ook i am with you all the days,' a timeline of sorts is presented, that states the.

wheat were/are annointed christains, .

Rufus T. Firefly

<<what exactly are imitation or false christains?>>

JWs.

254

Michael Brown verdict discussion policy

by Simon in

it's likely that the grand jury verdict on the michael brown incident will be released in the coming days or weeks.. i've no doubt many people are going to feel strongly about things whatever the verdict is.. whatever the outcome though, here's what's not going to happen:.

we're not going to put up with inflamatory language and comments designed to rile others up.

be respectful.. we will not allow accusations of racism simply because some have a view of the verdict that contradicts others.. there will not be invented evidence or claims being repeated - if it's been falsely reported or debunked then it's off limits.. it's not going to be an opportunity for people to air past gripes over past discussions.. if you feel that you cannot discuss the subject in a rational way then it may be better to simply avoid any topics on the matter.. please try to be objective and respectful if you do decide to comment and not keen to take offense.

Rufus T. Firefly

Fisherman, you wrote: "There is a video of the young man that purports to show him comitting a violent crime prior to his murder."

Do you see anything wrong with that statement?

18

How to Bewilder a Witness!

by The Searcher in

ask a witness what seems like a simple bible question: "nine verses in the bible tell us that jesus is going to judge the living and the dead.

(john 5:28,29, acts 10:42, acts 17:31, romans 14:9, 2 cor.

5:10, 2 tim.

Rufus T. Firefly

<<The Witnesses' elephant in the room is the Org's teaching of Romans 6:7, that a person's own death wipes out/acquits them of all their sins.>>

<<Doesn't this really nullify the need for Jesus' ransom sacrifice in the first place?>>

Read the context of Romans 6:1-11. Is verse 7 referring to a person's own death, or rather their death with reference to sin? Moreover, does it nullify the need for Jesus' ransom sacrifice, or rather does it explain how that ransom acquits one from one's sin.

23

NWT departure from greek meaning

by aintenoughwiskey in

the new jw library app includes the kingdom interlinear.

just by looking up the scriptures at the meeting when i went, revealed the following "departures" from the other translations:.

rev 5:10 "over the earth" vs "upon the earth".

Rufus T. Firefly

Revelation 7:15 - they (the great crowd) are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple (na'os, literally "divine habitation"). Watch Tower claims the great crowd are in the outer courtyard, so the divine habitation must be outside of the temple sanctuary! See the subject "sanctuary" in the Insight book; also Luke 1:9,21.